https://www.dianomi.com/click.epl?pn=141138&offer=35976565&savid=365091&can_cookie=1&unique_id=aO4oXa0VJ8xA4v4fuk1UqAAAAB8&adv=75916&said=71495&cf=456.3057.Hotcopper&smartreferer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.hotcopper.com.au%2Fthreads%2Fann-presentation-at-future-facing-commodities-conference.7318447%2Fpage-110%3Fpost_id%3D67244544